Interview by Andrea Caupain Sanderson, Black Future Co-op Fund
Dr. Maxine Hayes is a public health expert with 35+ years of experience. Growing up in Mississippi during the Civil Rights Movement, she completed her medical degree from SUNY and an MPH from Harvard. As the former State Health Officer for Washington, she advised government officials on public health matters. Dr. Hayes has received several awards for her contributions to public health, including the American Public Health Association’s Martha May Eliot Award. Throughout her career, she has advocated for health equity for underserved communities.
This interview was conducted by Andrea Caupain Sanderson, co-architect of the Black Future Co-op Fund on behalf of The Seattle Medium.
Caupain Sanderson: Dr. Maxine Hayes, we’re here to uplift the wisdom you bring from the medical field about Black health and well-being. This is International Women’s Month and Black women in particular are carrying a communal weight for our people. So, Mother Maxine, can you talk about the role Black women play in the well-being of our people?
Dr. Maxine Hayes: It is no secret. Black women make the family health decisions — whether for children, grandparents, or community friends. We must acknowledge this and make sure, in our interactions about health, that we have a relationship with the decision maker and that’s Black women. We’ve always carried the burden for our families and those around us because our philosophy is very community oriented. I’m particularly happy when we’re conscious of the role Black women play, and that we’re using our knowledge to broaden the definition of health.
Caupain Sanderson: Talk to me about the empathy we hold as Black women.
Hayes: Well, certainly, our lived experience is the basis for which Black women understand what’s truly going on with health and well-being in our families. As a mother raising African American boys to become men, I’ve lost one of my children. Every time we lose one of those children, the emotional tug on our hearts is real.
In a world where there’s so much violence and injustice, there’s a lot of rage, and it’s going to come out. Black women know this because we’ve been on the other end of that rage. Many in medicine may not understand because they’ve never had that experience. We’ve experienced a lot of pain in our histories and empathy is one thing that we need more of from the health community.
Caupain Sanderson: Why is stress and trauma dangerous?
Hayes: This year marks 50 years post my graduation from medical school. Anyone 50 years ago who said stress can kill you would have been laughed at because people didn’t recognize stress as a common denominator for many of our illnesses. Trauma is longstanding and something I’ve personally endured. Providers need to understand the historical context of hurt and injuries and get to the root causes of trauma. That’s what we are challenged to do as a society and as individual caregivers.
Society’s definition of health has been very narrow. It’s not just the absence of disease. It’s the social, emotional, and mental health components of well-being. What in the environment is making us sick? We have far too many toxic things in the environment, particularly for Black families. I can see it, our community can see it, and now we’ve got to have a society that recognizes it and says, “This is wrong.”
Caupain Sanderson What does wellbeing mean for you and as you knew it for our ancestors, what might it have been like for them to have well-being?
Hayes: I certainly think it means having comfort. We’ve got to change the narrative away from needing to be sick to receive care and comfort. Our ancestors didn’t have pills for their mental health, but they had one another. They had the intimacy and closeness of families in spite of being oppressed. We knew how to sing and how to be humble. These are healing and cleansing things and we have that ability in our DNA.
We imagined a better life — that of a day justice would come. We had a notion, a spirit, that got us through those times and we need it again because we’re in those same times right now. We’ve lost the importance of maintaining spirituality. It’s how you get through tough times.
Caupain Sanderson: In many spaces today Black people are unable to be their whole selves. Can you talk about what it was like for you in the field of medicine and the importance of building a pipeline for the future?
Hayes: Well, I came through as a result of the Civil Rights Movement. I grew up in Mississippi with Jim Crow — everything was segregated. I went to Spelman College and got a Merrill Scholarship to go overseas and study abroad when Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy were assassinated. When I returned, the doors for professional postgraduate training programs had opened. I was one of five Black people in my medical school class of over 130. It was a lonely struggle, but the school now celebrates me for my courage and how it changed them. We don’t know who we change when we change.
The Institute of Medicine’s 2003 report Unequal Treatment was a look at glaring racial disparities. Congress didn’t want to believe it. The bias in medicine was very obvious to me. They would always put African American women with any kind of pain in the category of women’s health. I saw that and it really hurt, but it motivated me to give care with dignity, which is something that Odessa Brown so beautifully displayed. It was Odessa Brown that got me to Washington State to take Dr. Lavizzo’s place. It became my torch to carry, which was handed to Dr. Ben Danielson to carry. Now we have an opportunity to work with others coming.
Caupain Sanderson: I’ve heard you talk about your perspective on public health, the term public health, why has that term not served our communities well?
Hayes: I came from the Jim Crow environment and so this notion of ‘public’ had a connotation that it was mediocre. We didn’t want it. Then, studies done by the U.S. Public Health Service revealed discrimination and mistreatment of syphilis. Public health needs to bring all the elements to the table including racism.
We have work to do. We’re the chosen ones during this time. These are hard times, but we are a generation that the Lord was preparing. He expects us to do something about these injustices. We have to change our workforce and have more people that look like the population being served. It will take experience, empathy, the family, the community, and trust — we never trusted that we were in good hands.
Caupain Sanderson: So ah, speaking of trust, that’s a heavy word and in the medical sector, what is your opinion on the relationship between pharma and medical professionals?
Hayes: Well, that’s one of those situations where the relationship is too cozy. Some of the pills they have don’t work, and they’re not meant to because if people are sick, that’s profit. Where’s the motivation to solve the problem instead of having a chronic problem?
Caupain Sanderson: Lastly, Mother Maxine, as a woman of faith will you tell me about your study of the book of Isaiah and how it can shed light for those of us in this world today?
Hayes: Isaiah was a prophet, the one that was chosen by God to warn Judah and Israel, to change their ways and right the wrongs of injustice. Injustice is mentioned many times in the Word. We are all spirits and the soul of man has got to be healthy — that means loving God and loving our neighbor. That’s true love. This way, we could change some of the attitudes and behaviors, and the door to change can be women.
